Derome poses a good question for Rays fans, citing the "psychological continuum model" that ultimately affects how often fans attend games and how much of their income they're willing to spend on a team:
Have Rays fans moved up through the stages of the continuum over the past 15 years? Derome says if not, the risks of eventual relocation are high:
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Good question Patrice... and kudos to Noah for putting the question out there....
ReplyDelete"So Rays fans, what do you think?"
(I guess we'll see how many Rays fans exist out there)
Thanks Tom. This is the original book, page 44 for the graphic and explanation.
Deletehttp://www.imd.inder.cu/adjuntos/article/577/Strategic%20Sport%20Marketing.pdf
There are fanatics, to be sure -- but the rub, as ever, is that there aren't enough of them out there.
ReplyDeleteConsidering how the off-field issues seem to get more press than whatever goes on in the diamond (and even that hasn't been hot the last two years), I wouldn't blame Rays fans for being at least lukewarm in their support.
In that case, you can't blame the Rays for wanting to move.... teams can't win all the time, and if fans can't support the team, then they're not real fans.
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ReplyDeleteThere are fanatics as proven by the excellent television ratings relative to the market size. The team has to win period and make the stadium experience better/engage with the fanbase more. The fans are tired of the ownership saying the customer and stadium are the problems.
ReplyDeleteI'm actually proud of St. Pete for not letting ownership take advantage of them like the Glazers have done with the city of Tampa. They bought the team with an existing lease in place. The Rays should win with what they have and the new stadium deal will work itself out.
TV ratings are great, but let's not assume that makes them fanatical. If you live and die by the team, but can't stand to cross a bridge or travel more than 30 minutes to the stadium, well...you don't live and die by the team. And that's fine.
DeleteBut let's not forget that this is not 2007. The team demonstrated that they could compete with a lower payroll by developing their own talent, consistently for 6 seasons, and it didn't make a difference. The stadium itself, looks way better than it did in 2007, and more has been done to improve the in-game experience. And yet, here we are.
So any local Rays fans want to share their own stories, speaking for themselves or friends and families?
I've been to the Trop. one time while in vacation.
DeleteCompared to the Big O, the stadium (without fans, just the premise) was a better experience for me. I also had time to walk/drive in around the stadium, it was quiet.
Regarding the fan experience in the stadium, I was with real fans with their inventory of signs that were brought up at every play, which was fun. I had a great time.
However, having people/fans in the stands does not mean that the experience is exciting (especially when the visiting team fans are louder than the Rays ones). Probably that my background with the Bell Center, the Saputo Stadium and the Big O (and Jarry Park) experiences raise the bar at a level that not a lot of cities can match, which will explain why I was not impress by the atmosphere.
Overall, I have nothing to say about the team (the product is good), the stadium is OK (can't talk about the location except that when I was at the AT&T Park the first year, it was quite an experience when compared to the Big O).
For sure, if the stadium was better located, it would have been even better after the game to take a drink, enjoy the night. But from what I understood, better leave the Trop. once the game is over. Ans this is what I did.
I think lots of good points here. Pat - I agree Trop > most of the domed stadium experiences of the 80s.
DeleteMatt, I agree watching on TV doesn't make a fan a fanatic....you need both strong ratings AND fanatics for long-term success.....
And to the Anonymous post - yes, St. Pete has done a very nice job for itself regarding taxpayer return....superior to most other pro sports cities.
Great post and reference to the model. I think it will take 20 years. We'll get there
ReplyDeleteGreat post and reference to the model. I think it will take 20 years. We'll get there
ReplyDeleteGreat post and reference to the model. I think it will take 20 years. We'll get there
ReplyDeleteThe fanatics are there. It's the TV viewing audience. Montreal can't touch this. In fact, Charlotte can't touch it and Las Vegas,,,, please - they can't support a AAA team.
ReplyDeleteWatch the Rays finally get the pass to look in Hillsborough and find a location that supports downtown. St. Pete has an opportunty to give the rays up but pick up 2 spring training teams that bring so much more money to this area. Unfortunately, you have short sided commissioners in St. Pete who will delay this.
TV viewers are nice but that's only a piece when considering interest in an area.... Having said that, Montreal numbers easily outdraw the 75k viewers the Rays get....
DeleteMontreal can't touch the TV viewing audience of a whopping 75K? You must be kidding.
DeleteRays get 75k only... That's a joke in itself....
DeleteAverage of 195 000 viewers on RDS (french sports network, not counting Sportsnet viewers in the province of Quebec) during MLB series in 2015 with the Blue Jays with a peak at 750 000 during game #5 against the Rangers. Average was 100 000 during the series in 2014.
Deletehttps://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.journaldemontreal.com%2F2015%2F10%2F22%2Fles-succes-des-blue-jays-sourient-a-rds&edit-text=&act=url
Imagine the number with a Montreal team. You can easily double (even triple that).
Can't touch 75K you said?
How is 70,000 - 80,000 average per game even impressive?! Especially when you compare that number to the 150,000+ a DYING franchise got in Montreal!
DeleteEveryone on this blog loves to say our TV ratings are great, but people seem to forget that there's like 8 million people in Quebec and there'd only be one team for the whole province. Expos drew over 150,000 on TV in 2003? Are you kidding me? I'm not even impressed by the Rays TV numbers anymore...
Just to put these numbers in perspective, in 2003 (1 year before the death of the Expos), while the team was own by the MLB and attendance were very low, the ratings were up to 180 000 during the season!
ReplyDeletehttp://collections.banq.qc.ca:8008/lapresse/src/pages/2003/P2003-03/08/29/S/82812_20030829LPS02.pdf
If the Alouettes have TV ratings of 250 000, the Expos would easily get AT LEAST an average of 300 000 if not 400 000. This is a huge TV contract (just for the french sport network, not counting the english contract).
Thanks for the numbers Pat. Annoyingmouse @9:13pm is full of crap when he states that the fans in Tampa amount to anything.... The fact remains, the Rays are an unsupported team in Florida be it in person or TV or otherwise...
DeleteIt just seems sad that our anonymous reader(s) are so quick to say what a fanatical market the TB area is, yet offer no personal stories towards their own fandom/experiences, just hiding behind TV numbers. Seems a little hollow, like trolling for the sake of trolling. I went over to Draysbay to see if any fanatics were commenting on the Rays' rejection of the latest offer. More people arguing about if they'd follow the team out of the state than those begging for a resolution to keep them in TB. Not saying they don't exist, I know I've run into some great folks while seeing the team on the road, but it's a real shame that their recent run of success hasn't translated into more butts in seats.
DeleteWhat do you mean by recent run of success? You mean, making the playoffs 3 years ago and then losing in the first round? Keep in mind, this team was a last place team for it's first 8 years. The team went to the World Series in 2008 and has made the playoffs a few times. Big deal. This team hasn't done much in the grand scheme of things.
DeleteYeah, six years of winning baseball is success. In that span, only 3 other teams had a better record. In other news, Pittsburgh went 20 years without a winning record. KC was 28 years in-between playoff appearances, with one winning season sprinkled in. Toronto finally starting selling out once people though they had a shot at a playoff runs, after never making the postseason in the wild card era. All three of these markets were starved for good baseball, and responded in kind when the teams started playing well. If you can't recognize that 6 consecutive seasons of winning baseball on a shoestring budget, while consistently dealing with player turnover is success, well, it only further indicates that you are trolling for the sake of trolling.
DeleteThe Rays won't be leaving the Tampa market. Stadium plan is being finalized and will be on outskirts of downtown Tampa. It's going according to plan. I happen to be "in the know."
ReplyDeleteOutskirts of (downturn) Tampa - yeah.... that will attract the crowds... NOT
DeletePeople have been posting "in the know" anonymous comments on this blog for years. Sigh.
DeleteOf course, not one of those "in-the-know" people has suggested how this mythical stadium in Tampa will be paid for....
Well, seeing that not even the Mayor of Tampa knows how it will be paid for, I'm sure those in the know know more... like exactly where it will be and how it be paid for and of course how the much the Rays will pay to get out of the Use Agreement and how much they will pay for this new stadium. I'm sure this BIG announcement will come any moment now that the WS is over.
DeleteI'm really rooting for the Rays to stay in the Tampa area. I still think Rays could be a sleeping giant there. There needs to be an aggressive marketing approach to get the transplants to divorce their old teams. If it was good enough for people to leave their city...it should be good enough to marry the girl their in love with...if that makes any sense. If this could be done..combined with a really sweet looking ball park....look out. The Rays name and uniform is one of the best in all of baseball..trust me, its better than a team after a crown, or a baby bear or a freaking slivering snake. Rays is cool. Just get the park...and make it a dandy.
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