Saturday, September 7, 2013

Fallout From Foster's Memo: Day 2

On one hand, you have to give Hillsborough Commission Chair Ken Hagan credit for being forward-thinking.  The land and financing and politics of the Stadium Saga are unlikely to come together all at once, so preserving all options is a good idea.

But on the other hand, is it really necessary to convince one of Downtown Tampa's brightest minds - Jeff Vinik - that he shouldn't close the door on a possible Downtown Tampa baseball stadium?

In this morning's Tampa Tribune:
Hillsborough County Commission Chairman Ken Hagan has asked the owner of the Tampa Bay Lightning hockey team, Jeff Vinik, to consider a Rays stadium on land he partly owns across from the Forum in downtown Tampa. Vinik is a partner with a Colorado-based investment group in at least 14 acres across from the Forum, and he’s been planning a large-scale development project there.

Hagan said he asked Vinik’s group not to make any plans until the Rays’ standoff with St. Petersburg is resolved. Hagan said he’s not committed to Vinik’s property, which sits on each side of Caesar Street and just north of Channelside Drive, but wants to have several potential stadium sites available in case the Rays come knocking.
One thing is certain: Vinik, who is a minority owner of the Boston Red Sox, needs no reminding about the possible uses for his land.

But the stalemate between St. Pete and the Rays could very well linger for years.  And if Downtown Tampa really needs a baseball stadium to trigger development, there won't be any major projects filling the Channelside area anytime soon anyway.  However, if developers are clamoring to fill all those downtown parcels right now and people are clamoring to move there, would a baseball stadium (likely land not on tax rolls) really be the highest-and-best use of that land?

“What I have asked (Vinik's group) to do is to not make any commitments toward their development until we have an understanding of how the Rays’ potential relocation efforts are played out,” Hagan told the Trib.

There's a lot of value in creating a master plan for downtown, but if Vinik and other developers were really on the verge of doing something with all that vacant land, the suggestion of slowing that progress could be counter-productive.

Hagan, who once said he didn't support any public money going toward a stadium, also told the Trib he was opposed to Hillsborough County compensating St. Pete for the early termination of their Rays contract.

“No, I can’t see any circumstance where Hillsborough County would compensate St. Pete for allowing the Rays to break their use agreement,” he said.

While Hillsborough may never actually cut St. Pete a check, if it costs anything to "make St. Pete whole," it's simply increasing the bottom line cost of a new stadium, which Tampa/Hillsborough taxpayers would presumably help subsidize.

However, if Hagan is siding with Bud Selig in the alleged MLB/St. Pete brouhaha over compensation, it's only playing into the Rays' hand and making the current impasse harder to solve.

25 comments:

  1. Regarding:
    "Hagan, who once said he didn't support any public money going toward a stadium, also told the Trib he was opposed to Hillsborough County compensating St. Pete for the early termination of their Rays contract."

    How sad that there is even the conscious thought of Hillsborough County compensating St. Pete. If the Rays contract is broken, then it is up to the Rays/MLB to do the compensating!

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    1. Whether Hillsborough's $300M (or whatever) went to paying St. Pete and building the foundation of a stadium...or it went toward buying land and building the foundation of a stadium is irrelevant.

      The Rays/MLB will only contribute so much, so the bottom-line cost of a new stadium will include things like repairations.

      Anyone who pays for any of a new park is going to be paying a share of all costs.

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    2. It's great to know Noah gets his information that he post from actual representatives of the Rays & Hillsborough co., and isn't "assuming" cost & who will pay for what, lol...
      And if Hillsborough co. feels like they'll profit more money by doing what they need to do to get the Rays then letting them sit in Pinellas, then maybe they have "economist" that backs the possibility opposed to "assuming". If I owned a business in Hillsborough county, and had an employee sitting in jail in Pinellas for something dumb, and I was set to make more money by bailing him out, and getting back to work for me opposed to waiting on him, and letting business get backed up then I'm calling a bail bondsmen. Wouldn't you?

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    3. Except bail is seldom set at $600M.

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  2. Are you from st.pete scott?

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    1. MR/MS Anonymous.

      No I am not.

      Where are you from?

      Do you have a name?

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    1. Well MS Anonymous, maybe we will see posts from you in the future identified as 'Jennifer'

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  4. Why cant you see what an what a great chance for them to build a beautiful ballpark in tampa bay, You know St.Pete is most likely asking for too much. Let them pay off the bonds. Lets support a new stadium. Foster knows that st.pete is no longer feasible for baseball.

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    1. Anonymous,

      Who is 'them' that are going to build the beautiful ballpark? And is that the same 'them' that is going to pay for the beautiful ballpark?

      Who is 'them' that are going to pay off the bonds?

      And when push comes to shove, I am sure it will not be as simple as just paying off the bonds.

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    2. Yeah, there's just no money for a new stadium right now.

      And what changed that made St. Pete "no longer feasible" for baseball? You could argue it never has been, but then why did MLB choose to put a franchise there?

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    3. LOL, I see you got a new friend Noah, Scott "the parrot" Myers! "the parrot" because he seems to basically repeat everything you say w/ the "NO" w/ no real solutions to the issue. You guys are funny, like the mature adult laughing at the kid throwing a tantrum saying "NO! I'm not going to!" w/ his arms crossed & tears in his eyes. Though if Scott repeats Noah, and Noah just repeats from articles written by people like TBT & TBO, then who do they repeat? Oha, they actually do the "investigating". And if Noah makes money from saying the same thing others say, and gets paid to from the lil' advertising on this blog, then isn't that the same as "revenue sharing"?
      One of these I hope to see a posted article that (Noah) interviewed a ballpark builder, or a local developer, or anyone that could shed some light on the "shadow" casted by opinions & assuming...

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    4. You criticize "no real solutions to the issue," but what issue? The Rays and MLB both turning profits?

      As a watchdog, it's my job to point out we haven't really identified "an issue" other than Bud Selig and Stu Sternberg aren't happy.

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    5. The issue is the purpose of this blog, and it's our understanding that the Rays are profitable, but it's like ballplayers, yah you might be better at playing your sport then 99.9% of the worlds population, but if your not better then most of the players in your league, your out!
      All I'm saying is that if you want to be the "watchdog", it's only fair to your readers, and the citizens of Tampa Bay that both sides of the coin are shown opposed to assuming it's a bad situation. I'm assuming though Bud, Stu, Bob, the city of Tampa, and a lot of their silent partners "aren't happy" because Billy's administration is holding them back from making a lot of money. You'd be unhappy as well...

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    6. Except they are all making a lot of money. And the taxpayers are being asked to write a check.

      It's my job - and other journalists' jobs - to ask important questions, like "how much should we be paying when there's no evidence yet its necessary?"

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    7. I understand that, but if Tampa could prosper with the Rays in the their backyard making more money then in St.Pete, where's the wrong in that? Besides, NO one has asked anyone to "write a check", we assume it for the drama aspect, but we have to put one foot in front of the other...
      Also, there's much more to it! You also have to ask "is it worth the possible investment", and "is there other alternatives"...

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    8. I'm still wondering if anyone can say 1 thing Billy has done to help the Rays progress?! We know we can about Bob!

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    9. "If Tampa could prosper with the Rays" - that's a gigantic "if." It all depends on the price...and since the Rays are the ones who want a new stadium, maybe they should be the ones who propose a rough budget for a new stadium? They've refused to talk how much they'd contribute since 2008.

      As for Foster & St. Pete, they've has spent some marketing dollars for the Rays, maintained the Trop, and facilitated with local businesses to encourage ticket-buying. But hard to quantify any of it.

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    10. I agree it depends on "Price", David Price that is (lol), and his contract. Though really $ will only dictate the length of when Tampa WILL start profiting, maybe 10 years opposed to 5, or 15 opposed to 10? Though let's keep it real, Tampa wants the Rays as much as the Rays want to be in Tampa! I believe through all their data through all the homework they done they know what the revenues will look like in 2025, it's how they won the 2nd most games in the Majors over the last 6 years with one of the lowest payrolls. Of course they're not throwing out numbers for people like you in the media to twist in a negative manner, like selling cars, it's the salesmen's job to "get a commitment without giving one"...
      See it's stuff like that that is the difference why people like Stu, Matt, Andrew, Jeff, etc. are who they are, and to sell them short as if they have the intelligence of most of the dumb criminals your used to reporting on is where your swinging and missing, their playing chess, and you think their playing checkers...
      As for "Foster & Pinellas", I find it hard to believe in your defense of them helping the elephant in the room. But, I'll take your word for it, I'll assume your not assuming just to go against my view. Though, IF true, those things are things they could do only because of the Rays like funneling funds to maintain the Trop, and marketing...
      Like I mentioned earlier, who care's about the citizens of St.Pete, the Rays helped St.Pete & Pinellas make way more money then they could of thought 20 years ago, when playing Major League Baseball in St.Pete was a pipe-dream, BUT Stu did sign a contract knowing his best bet was to move the Rays to Tampa...

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    11. "I believe through all their data through all the homework they done they know what the revenues will look like in 2025."

      Do you believe the Rays when they say they have no idea what kind of new revenues a new stadium would bring?

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    13. ? (From what I wrote) Of course not! The Rays aren't the stereotypical big obnoxious wealthy owner that just thought it would be cool to own a team, and had nothing better to spend millions of his billions on, then let some "yes-men" run his team into the ground. Stu is financial elitist from Goldman Sachs, along w/ Matt Silverman, you add another smart financial analyst from Bear Sterns in Andrew Friedman, and a Joe Maddon that been in ALL aspects of baseball since the 70's, including running all of Anaheim's minor league system which helps today's Rays. I know you know all this, but I believe if were talking about building a park, the Rays aren't going to let Billy or possibly the lack of public financing get in their way, that's what dumb front offices do like the Marlins & Bucs, which is the same reason you & other media likes to get all worked up these days before yinz even hear the real details...

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  5. Well mlb told them not to build the trop anyways. They should pay the city the bonds of the stadium. As st
    pete also should be looking for developers and busines to buy parts or all of the land. Heck try to pull in someone to build a casino hotel or a college/university. I find Foster is holding up progress due to sour grapes. This could be an chance for both communities to growth. Foster wants taxpayer interest protected. Well the city can move with times or get out of the way.

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  6. B dufala. When you think they will get new stadium

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    1. Well, everything depends on Pinellas county's road block. I think most of the details of what it's going to take to start playing baseball in a new ballpark in Tampa's Channelside (where the ConAgra Foods plant is) is already worked out behind the scenes. It's hard though because Stu signed the contract w/ Pinellas, but his Rays helped St.Pete make way more money then they could of thought 20 years ago, so it's easy to understand both sides of the argument. But, if I had to pick a time, I'd say they'll get the ok to "come out of the closet" with the details about a ballaprk in Tampa this off season, I think they'll settle things with Pinellas during next season, start getting the ball rolling in Channelside the following off season, and play their first game in the new ballpark in 2018...

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